Posts by cha ching

4

WTBTS: Hermeneutics

by cha ching in

where did the pharisees come from?.

http://www.britannica.com/ebchecked/topic/455129/phariseethepharisees emerged as a distinct group shortly after the maccabaean revolt, around 165160 bc as a party of laymen and scribes in contradistinction to the: .

?ti?n 'ha?d?g?

cha ching

Where did the Pharisees come from?

h ttp://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/455129/Pharisee

ThePharisees emerged as a distinct group shortly after the Maccabaean revolt, around 165–160 bc as a party of laymen and scribes in contradistinction to the:

['ma??ti?n 'ha?d?g?] ; September 26, 1889 – May 26, 1976) was a German philosopher known for his existential and phenomenological explorations of the "question of Being ". [4]

So, here we go:

Pharisee, harmonizes his teachings to fit their own ideas.

They used "hermeneutics."

That's like the existentialist: Heidegger...

1874 didn't work... oh, that was his invisible presence... Let's make 1914 Armageddon now.

That didn't work, let's make 1914 his invisible presence...

Woe! let's make a generation that has to be 15 years of age in 1914 to be a part of the whole thing...

Wait! Now they just have to be born in 1914!

Ohhh! we get it now..... It's OVERLAPPING generations....

Do you wonder why you feel like the WTBS is a bunch of Pharisees?

progressive tendency

Past truth... present truth... brighter truth

".....

they gave it a new and more acceptable meaning, seeking scriptural support for their actions through a ramified system of

hermeneutics"!!!!

Sadducees

i.e., the party of the high priesthood that had traditionally provided the sole leadership of the Jewish people.

broadly, is the art of text interpretation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics

39

There is a Mole in Brooklyn

by Oubliette in

reading cedar's excellent article about the july 15, 2013 new-light" study edition of the watchtower got me thinking:.

the control freaks in brooklyn known as the governing body (aka fds) must be having conniption fits knowing that there is a mole in bethel leaking information to apostates!

"three weeks ahead of its expected release date in mid-april, a scanned copy of the july 15 2013 "study edition" of the watchtower was leaked to the office of jwsurvey by a conscientious active witness within the organization.".

cha ching

Can't leave: thx 4 the info i am now an educated cha chinger

19

MAJOR-Revelation Climak book critiqued

by Refriedtruth in

this is a major find and holding top ranked will get tens of thousands of hits.

get your licks in comments and vote up the good guys.

10 observations about jehovah's witnesses and the book of .... huffington post-it is argued repeatedly that only jehovah's witnesses are truly faithful to god and so they are uniquely situated to understand the contents of ....

cha ching

*** w09 1/15 p. 32 Highlights From the Book of Revelation—I ***

8:1-5—Why did a silence occur in heaven, and what was subsequently hurled to the earth? A symbolic silence occurred in heaven so that “the prayers of the holy ones” on earth could be heard. This was at the end of the first world war. Anointed Christians did not ascend to heaven at the end of the Gentile Times, as many had expected they would.

... hidden in plain sight, hmm? Yep, they thought they were all going to heaven in 1914.. the "end of the Gentile Times." (let's not forget to capitalize the "GT")

"They experienced difficult times during the war. So now they prayed fervently for guidance. In response to their prayers, the angel hurled...."

Yep, angels were probably pretty sick at this..... I guess Rutherford wasn't a good judge of which angels were repentant & which were not, and he spoke to the wrong ones. "1925 was "not a more sure date than 1914 for Armageddon!"

39

There is a Mole in Brooklyn

by Oubliette in

reading cedar's excellent article about the july 15, 2013 new-light" study edition of the watchtower got me thinking:.

the control freaks in brooklyn known as the governing body (aka fds) must be having conniption fits knowing that there is a mole in bethel leaking information to apostates!

"three weeks ahead of its expected release date in mid-april, a scanned copy of the july 15 2013 "study edition" of the watchtower was leaked to the office of jwsurvey by a conscientious active witness within the organization.".

cha ching

If the GB is that intent on "changing things before they are printed," why not just let them print it, so they'll be stuck with it?

Why give them a heads up by "releasing info early" from a "mole"?

24

ALL you ever need to know to understand NEW LIGHT (for what it really is)

by Terry in

here is what i'm thinking; see if you don't agree.... .

jehovah's witnesses are divided into three distinct tiers of membership.. 1.governing body anointed.

4.the rank and file jw & non-gb anointed are told what the shape is and what it means and what to do about it.. .

cha ching

Interesting, Terry....

I like your list of 7, above, that pretty well encapsulates what the WT does to your brain when it has new light, or needs to get rid of it....

You've done a good job of boiling it down, and I would say it took quite a while to make it so simple.... didn't it?

Even tho you made it easy to read, and simplified it, it still hurts your brain, doesn't it? But, it's true.... This IS what they do.

If we have to work so hard at defining & simplifying the basic process the WT uses to "change history," and believe me, I am always trying to put it in words.... "how do they do that?"... imagine what happens to people when they just try to sort thru a paragraph in the WT, or try to remember what is "present truth."

cha ching, cha ching, let the bells of truth ring

24

ALL you ever need to know to understand NEW LIGHT (for what it really is)

by Terry in

here is what i'm thinking; see if you don't agree.... .

jehovah's witnesses are divided into three distinct tiers of membership.. 1.governing body anointed.

4.the rank and file jw & non-gb anointed are told what the shape is and what it means and what to do about it.. .

cha ching

I like that Terry & Ding.

Very simple, very clear. Just put "Watchtower" or "Jehovah's Witnesses" into the blanks, and the story becomes clear.

67

There are really TWO Watchtower Societies

by Terry in

with cedars release of leaked watchtower new light "adjusting" understanding of "who" the faithful and discreet slave is.....i am struck by something which similarly struck me back in 1967.in 1967 i had just been imprisoned.

being a male jehovah's witness during the viet nam war meant certain "issues" arose affecting a decision to respond to the military draft.i have told the story before.

but, i'd like go at it from another angle in view of the above mentioned new light about the fds fora different reason.it was first in 1967 i began to discover that there are two watchtower societies.let me explain why i say this and for what reasons.first of all, anybody standing in a kingdom hall or sitting in a seat at a vast international assembly saw people they would identify as all on the same page.

cha ching

PS, thank you "Lost" & Ding & Terry for your "Welcoming Welcomes"

67

There are really TWO Watchtower Societies

by Terry in

with cedars release of leaked watchtower new light "adjusting" understanding of "who" the faithful and discreet slave is.....i am struck by something which similarly struck me back in 1967.in 1967 i had just been imprisoned.

being a male jehovah's witness during the viet nam war meant certain "issues" arose affecting a decision to respond to the military draft.i have told the story before.

but, i'd like go at it from another angle in view of the above mentioned new light about the fds fora different reason.it was first in 1967 i began to discover that there are two watchtower societies.let me explain why i say this and for what reasons.first of all, anybody standing in a kingdom hall or sitting in a seat at a vast international assembly saw people they would identify as all on the same page.

cha ching

Hey, thank YOU for all of your efforts, all of you.

Because the Society is so frustrating to people, it is great to do the 'instant search' here, and find just about anything you want to research, the hard work has already been done. Thx, thx so much!

The Society never has to "pay up," they are always getting the "get out of jail free card." We have been reading things for a while, and being able to explain "cognitive dissonance," and hearing others express their feelings is like getting out of the "psycho ward," and being able to speak to real, live, people, haha!

I have spoken to a few "closer" friends... amazing.... surprising...

I asked a few questions... my fave is about Sodom & Gomorrah... "they will forever be destroyed," "they will be resurrected, and given a chance," "they will be destroyed forever."

I told my friend about my experience of studying with a woman, reading the "paragraph." asking "will S & G be resurrected?" --at THAT time it was "yes"-- and the 'study' said "no, it says it right here in the scripture," and all I could say was ... "look at the paragraph... what does it say?"

.... I felt so bad, I hated it... I had no OTHER explanation other than "the paragraph." I am the person that always wants the reason... but I had none... Why hadn't my "faithful and discreet slave" given me the "proper food at the proper time?" Just a few weeks later the teaching changed. Now I had to face her. How sad, how can that be? I was disappointed in myself.

Now I see how why the Society's fave word is "evidentally." Quite a "get out of jail free card," eh?

I asked my friend, "If the society is 'led by the spirit,' why is the spirit telling us something is true, then false, then switching back? That is not the light getting brighter, that is like Jesus is turning the light switch off, on, off, on."

She started shaking... literally. She said I was scaring her. Her, the pioneer, the wife of an elder, a person who has to answer questions from 'worldly non-believers' each day. This was nothing like "the trinity." Just a simple, "why was that doctrine's changing being described as 'light getting brighter'?"

She couldn't answer, told me to talk to an elder. I replied that we should be able to ask questions, Paul said to keep testing as to whether you were in the faith. (2 Corinthians 13:5) 5 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. . .

and (Galatians 1:8) 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed.. . .

Now, if you can challenge Paul or an Angel, you should be able to challenge the Society... right?

Even Jesus let Stephen challenge his resurrection, tho he had seen miracles, experienced holy spirit. Stephen got to ask Jesus to put his fingers in the holes from the stake, and I can't ask about Sodom and Gomorrah?

Jesus obliged him. No problem. People that imitate Jesus should be willing to do the same. Stephen was not D.F'd. Jesus was nice to Stephen, and made some holes.

Nope... didn't matter.... All those scriptures, all those illustrations didn't matter.

That is what I have learned... You need to make people answer the questions themselves...

I expected my close friends of many years to stop and think, and at least.... give me reasons.

cha ching, cha ching, you ain't gettin' my bling!

24

ALL you ever need to know to understand NEW LIGHT (for what it really is)

by Terry in

here is what i'm thinking; see if you don't agree.... .

jehovah's witnesses are divided into three distinct tiers of membership.. 1.governing body anointed.

4.the rank and file jw & non-gb anointed are told what the shape is and what it means and what to do about it.. .

cha ching

Good start... I like the suggestion others made @ just asking a question... & letting THEM answer.. When they have to say it w/their own mouth, & hear it w/their own ears, u have a chance.

1... Where does our light come from?

2... Who gave the light about the overlapping generations?

3.... Who gave the light that you had to be 15 years old (+/-) when the signs in 1914 started, to be part of that generation?

4.... Who sent the light "Well, now you just have to be born in 1914 to be part of that generation?"

5. Are these teachings (3& 4) now "old light?" Who gave us old light? Where is the right light?

What should we expect from God? Is God's chariot just "tacking?"

rechap.1p.8par.8Revelation—ItsHappyClimax!

1988 8 An even stronger reason for publishing this book is the need to keep up-to-date with present truth. Jehovah is continually shedding greater light on the meaning of his Word, and we can expect that our understanding of Revelation, along with other prophecies, will be sharpened as we draw closer to the great tribulation.

***

However, there have always been some who, rather than remain unmovable in their loyal support of the Kingdom, want to drift back to the beliefs and ways of false religion. These do not appreciate that the Master, Christ Jesus, is using the anointed body of his followers on earth as a "faithful and discreet slave" in dispensing spiritual food.—Matt. 24:45-47.

16

It was first in 1895 that some friends of Zion’sWatchTower suggested that this magazine is identified with "that slave"—"that servant." (Matt. 24:46, AuthorizedVersion) Enemies aroused violent opposition to this viewpoint of such friends, so that TheWatchTower of October 1, 1909, had this to say:

"Our friends insist that this Scripture indicates that in the end of this Gospel age the Lord would use not many channels for the dissemination of the Truth, but one channel . . . They hold that all of them received their knowledge ofPresent Truth directly from the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society’s publications, or indirectly through those who have received their enlightenment through thischannel. They are glad correspondingly to co-operate as ‘fellow-servants’ with the Society’s work, believing that thereby they are following the leadings of the Divine Providence, as well as the instructions of the Divine Word."

17

Then, referring to those enemies of truth, TheWatchTower said:

"They seek to turn the minds of the enlightened ones in another direction by telling them that ‘each should dig’ the jewels of Divine Truth for himself; that the Society’s publications merely gave them the start on which now they should improve, so that eventually its teachings would be far in the background. These disloyal ‘fellow-servants’ suggest further that there is danger of worshipping the Society and that to avoid so doing it is practically necessary to give it a kick or to turn their backs upon it. They say, Let us have a Bible study, but let us exclude the Society’s publications!"

That was written 72 years ago, andto this day there are a few who would try to discredit the body of truth that Jehovah has built up progressively, using his one channel. As the light of truth grows ever brighter, how happy we should be to remain "unmovable" in our association with the Master’s ‘faithful slave’!—Col. 1:21-2

So, Jehovah can't get it right the first time? Jehovah has to "build up the body of truth progressively.....?"

They are sooooooo smart. How did they figure that out?

As early as 1909 it was obvious to people alive then, that the "GB" (oops no GB yet.. well... ) I mean, "faithful slave" were in danger of being worshipped...

The Society claims that only thru their channel does Jehovah dispense light... dispensing "Present Truth."

If I teach a past truth, is it still truth?

cha ching! cha ching! you ain't gettin' my bling!

67

There are really TWO Watchtower Societies

by Terry in

with cedars release of leaked watchtower new light "adjusting" understanding of "who" the faithful and discreet slave is.....i am struck by something which similarly struck me back in 1967.in 1967 i had just been imprisoned.

being a male jehovah's witness during the viet nam war meant certain "issues" arose affecting a decision to respond to the military draft.i have told the story before.

but, i'd like go at it from another angle in view of the above mentioned new light about the fds fora different reason.it was first in 1967 i began to discover that there are two watchtower societies.let me explain why i say this and for what reasons.first of all, anybody standing in a kingdom hall or sitting in a seat at a vast international assembly saw people they would identify as all on the same page.

cha ching

First post... kinda scary.. even for someone who is not really afraid to share her opinion.

I was just about a "born in." Very young when my mom started studying.

It was this "overlapping generation" thing that really got me started. Laughing at Harold Camping (and his failed prediction date) and at the same time saying they "evidently," after "reviewing" & "looking back" had a "better understanding" of what Jesus was saying to his apostles. (and don't forget, they are "led by God's spirit")

I actually called the "Society," and asked them about it. I also asked what the difference was between being "inspired" and being "led by God's spirit" was. The brother was very sweet, listened, and sounded just like the WT in his answer... so brain bogglingly foggedly twisting that I can only remember him saying "the brothers here work so hard, they truly love us, wait on Jehovah, the answer will be in a WT soon."

So, we waited.... 2011 came... then the WTs... Oct & Nov... about "When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?" My husband & I sat down, made charts, dissected (I was mad that they couldn't construct simple sentences, or put the same subjects in the same place on the same page, but jumped from one thing tothe other) re-constructed, etc...

Very clever, their use of questions.. "Could others have ruled during the reigns of these kings?" (WT 11/01/11 pg 24 pgph 2) I used the WT library CD looked up every mention of Nebuchadnezzar, Amel-Marduk, and the rest of them. I wanted to make sure I didn't use any "outside sources" for my conclusions. So sad. They lied. Hoisted by their own petard.

This is how it relates to Terry's point:

Once we saw that 607, 1914, 1919 was a scam, we ventured onto other sites to gather historical evidence. We came across this site, and whooaaa! Wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles, someone else had already! found out wht we had just taken 2-4 weeks to assure ourselves of. They did it years ago! Years and years ago.

It was very enlightening, and reassuring to me to see that others had gone on this same adventure, and had come to the same conclusions, and had said some of the exact same things that my husband & I had said to each other!

Personally, at first, it is sometimes it is hard to put in words the way the WT bends your brain. You need to be able to understand it, to be able to help someone else.. I believe.

I tried explaining it to a girl at work, who has ex JW friends... and tho I tried to sum it up AFAP (as fast as possible) I realized how hard it is to convey the depth of layers explained to someone on the outside. As many have said, only a JW can truly understand (at least as fast, or with the depth w/o explanation)

Perhaps part of the reason I appreciate hearing others points of view is that I have come to realize (w/the help of my sister.. haha) that different people, different brains, different backgrounds think differently, have different reactions, draw different conclusions... and my way of explaining may not be the right way, or only way, best way to explain, or get thru to people. I'd rather learn faster, thru the experiences of others.

When Terry, and others, put things in definable terms, it helps people to sort thru their feelings, and why not? When I express myself it helps me. I think that more and more people are going to be feeling uncomfortable with this 'new light'... and, when they come across discussions such as these, it will help.

thx!

cha ching...

(ps... Why did I use "Cha Ching" as my name? When I decided "that's it!" I said to my husband, I am going to drop a post card in the mail to the Society with the phrase "Cha Ching Cha Ching" "You ain't gettin' no more of my bling!" Can you tell I don't like the "Please don't forget to include your gold fillings in your will when you decide to name us sole heirs" in the ever so humble, increasingly numerous meeting parts?)